nick dadamo 1 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Hi this is nick dadamo i am looking for a new 222 rifle in heavy profile barrel, any one other than gun smiths got any ideas, it is to be used for range work, fox control and in line with my job as a pest control and it will be used for deer control in scotland. So as has anyone got any senseable ideas and location of rifle ? Quote Link to post
markha 99 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Nick, Hi and welcome to THL mate, have a read through this regarding legal rifle calibres for deer: http://www.basc.org.uk/en/codes-of-practice/deer-stalking.cfm This may change your mind, also worth bearing in mind is that the vas majority of police forces wont allow any calibre below .223CF for fox. Sorry if you know this already, dont want you to suck eggs Quote Link to post
SportingShooter 0 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Nick, Hi and welcome to THL mate, have a read through this regarding legal rifle calibres for deer: http://www.basc.org....er-stalking.cfm This may change your mind, also worth bearing in mind is that the vas majority of police forces wont allow any calibre below .223CF for fox. Sorry if you know this already, dont want you to suck eggs .222 was and is still a very common calibre for Fox control, no licensing department will refuse a .222 on grounds of calibre for the job. Nick, You will likely have a hard job finding a .222 with the exact specification which is new. It is unfortunately a dying calibre with few manufacturers still making them Quote Link to post
salukiwhippet 6 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 As said, all licensing depts will approve .22hornet for fox, so .222 will be dead easy! Legal for munties and CWD in England and Wales, plus Roe in Scotland. They are getting less popular, there are still several makers that do them though - CZ being one. I have an old BRNO in .22hornet and I love it, would think the modern equivalent (CZ527?) would be lovely in .222. Don't discount second hand rifles either, all mine are older than me and all will shoot straighter than I can! James Quote Link to post
RicW 67 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Remington VSSF, Jewell trigger. Try South Yorkshire Shooting Supplies, aka Rimfire Magic. Ric Quote Link to post
danw 1,748 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 You won't find much better than this in a factory rifle http://www.sako.fi/sako85models.php?varmint_showdata#pagedown Quote Link to post
markha 99 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Hi all, I still stand by what I said regarding .223cf for fox and many police forces having that as the minimum, and its certainly the case in N Wales, I asked my FEO 2 months ago about the exact same thing - HMR HM2 22hornet will not be considered by NWP, .223 minimum and there are other forces in the UK with the same stance, according to NWP FEO. Quote Link to post
SportingShooter 0 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Hi all, I still stand by what I said regarding .223cf for fox and many police forces having that as the minimum, and its certainly the case in N Wales, I asked my FEO 2 months ago about the exact same thing - HMR HM2 22hornet will not be considered by NWP, .223 minimum and there are other forces in the UK with the same stance, according to NWP FEO. Sounds like many FEOs that i've had dealings with. i.e. those who refuse to even contemplate the guidelines from the Home Office as to what is suitable or not. I don't think "many forces" is justified as yours is the one and only case that I have ever heard of that a .222 being unsuitable for Fox, having dealt with dozens of forces. I'm not saying it isn't the case with NWP, but FEOs are not the be all and end all of licensing. In fact, i've found many of them to be dangerously misinformed. If we continue the "What is suitable for Fox debate, it just opens up the "I've got a .22LR for Fox" question again"" Regards SS Quote Link to post
matt_hooks 188 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) Even though the .222 and the .223 fire exactly the same bullet, from a case that has pretty much the same capacity. Factory figures show the .222 pushing out around the 1100 to 1200 ft.lb mark, as opposed to the .223 at around the 1200 to 1300 ft.lb. Goes to show just how knowledgable our police licencing departments are! Edited to add, I have my .22LR conditioned for any other legal quarry, so I can legally take fox with it (and indeed have done on several occasions) The .22 centrefire cartridges are all more than capable of taking a fox at 200 plus yards, if the soggy organic bit behind the butt is good enough. Edited March 15, 2011 by matt_hooks Quote Link to post
salukiwhippet 6 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Never heard of that, ever Mark! Completely against HO guidelines too. HMR and HM2 fair enough, I don't think they should be used on fox in 90% of circumstances - in fact, I'd rather use a .22lr than an HMR - those little bullets are just too unpredictable in terms of terminal ballistics. Hornet's hardly in the same league as any of the rimfires though!! Mind, I was told that HND in Game and Wildlife, DSC 1, and 5 years experience wasn't enough for an open ticket so not much surprises me these days! A letter to the FL manager sorted that out! James Quote Link to post
markha 99 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 All I can say is dont shoot the messenger, you guys have had your FAC for a while, yes? Well Im just reporting what NWP have been doing with regards to this particular question, I would also think that once you have a particular fox condition on your license for smaller CF calibres, then its going to be a bit hard for them to take it off, not so with new applicants though. I completely agree what the hell is the actual ballistic difference between .222 and .223, negligble. It just seems that the original guidance on calibre and use of has changed a lot over the years as when you look at the Home Office guidelines on recommended calibres its not quiet the same Page 82 http://tna.europarchive.org/20100419081706/http:/www.police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/operational-policing/HO-Firearms-Guidance2835.pdf?view=Binary Quote Link to post
nick dadamo 1 Posted March 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 hi to you all regards feed back to .222 rifle, i currently shoot full bore and precission shooting up to 1000 yrds, i do all my own re-loading and currently own a 22 anchutz hornet rifle which i re-load for. i use this for fox control, rabbits and as and when canada geese control . i shoot near lockabie and the land we shoot over with my mate is claered for .222 and bigger calibre rifles, up to 308 calibre. i own a remmy 308 in Mcree stock with inter changeable fore ends, nightforce npr2 reticle on top. again i re-load for this rifle. on my ticket i am permitted to use .222 for fox, pest control,deer control, 308 is also for range work, and deer control but weight of rifle is 14 lbs so tab to heavy for stalking. my 22 hornet is on open permit and is used for pleasure and business work. All rifles are cleared for moderators and have the option for muzzle brakes. i will look at cz rifles and remmys rifles to see whats on offer. finally was looking at Tikka Super Varmint but the head space from the bolt is a bit of a jump for such a small cartridge, it works ok but i will use this rifle as a last resort. good shooting to u all and be safe. Quote Link to post
salukiwhippet 6 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 All I can say is dont shoot the messenger, you guys have had your FAC for a while, yes? Well Im just reporting what NWP have been doing with regards to this particular question, I would also think that once you have a particular fox condition on your license for smaller CF calibres, then its going to be a bit hard for them to take it off, not so with new applicants though. I completely agree what the hell is the actual ballistic difference between .222 and .223, negligble. It just seems that the original guidance on calibre and use of has changed a lot over the years as when you look at the Home Office guidelines on recommended calibres its not quiet the same Page 82 http://tna.europarchive.org/20100419081706/http:/www.police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/operational-policing/HO-Firearms-Guidance2835.pdf?view=Binary Not shooting the messenger at all mate, it's just you're the first I've heard say that, and I speak to folk all over the country in the course of my work What are we looking at on page 82? Definitely says .222 (and 17 rem and .22H for that matter) are reccommended for fox. James Quote Link to post
kbtfowler 2 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 I use my m595.222 for fox and roe and never had a problem, apart from i feel it would benefit having a better quality (non flex) stock. Andy Quote Link to post
RicW 67 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Markha - this shows how ignorant some FEOs are. They'd probably refuse .220 Swift because it's too small. 4250fps mv, 1605 ft.lbs me. Ho hum. The regs in England & Wales for Muntjac and CWD allow "Calibre .220" centrefire, minimum ME 1000ft.lbs. Quote Link to post
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